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Last Post 05 Jan 2021 12:57 PM by  Larry Wilkerson
3D interactive mapping for (online) mining guide
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Larry Wilkerson
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03 Jan 2021 04:25 AM
    ** Correct Me If I'm Wrong**

    But... I've noticed that a printed copy of the G.P.A.A. Claims Guide is currently only available to full year or life long signing members. I looked to buy the printed edition online at the store, but found that it couldn't be purchased. I'm mainly interested in Mapping 3D Google earth G.P.A.A. claims for an aerial view to reference potential dig locations (Ex.: You Tube "Gold Trails" with Kevin Hoagland, "3D interactive mapping with you GPAA Mining Guide and Google Earth"). If you have any suggestions please feel free... I signed late in the night (1/02/2021) and just to get started I did a month to month membership... even skipping the 25% military discount, (full price membership is only 5.99 a month anyway). Only to find that full GPS coordinates "a members only access" (NW, NE, SE, SW) Latitude and Longitude are not currently being offered completely online... I guess only in the book? All the claims that I have viewed so far only lists the center of claim and/or the ingress point. Thankful to be an active member of G.P.A.A. and look forward to meeting you on the gold trails.
    Jason Marsh-Pederson
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    03 Jan 2021 04:34 AM
    This has been a curiosity of mine for a while as i have been a member for coming up on my first year and planning to renew to a multiple year membership and i feel there needs to be more clarity as far as boundaries with properties and "perimeter" limits to reduce the risk of clam jumping or going outside limits for legality and safety for not only members but for the feeling of security and assured structure for people of the territories we are involved with. (correct me if I'm not on the same understanding)
    Larry Wilkerson
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    03 Jan 2021 05:58 AM
    I agree. Knowing your boundaries and terrain is a key step towards taking your personal safety into consideration. 3D mapping a claim is such a powerful insightful tool it is the first planning step I take for that road trip. But you need all the claim GPS coordinates to be successful at this not just the center of claim and ingress point. This miner needs more GPS from the book placed online where 3D mapping is applied. I'm thinking this would help you too... I currently do not have a printed copy of the GPAA mining guide, (possibly a condition of my month-to-month payment membership) I don't know. I do know that the full GPS coordinates of the claims and claim boundaries are outlined in the printed copy, but not online... I can't even find one for sale at the GPAA store. I will look for a used one being sold online by someone for now... I can cross reference the claims in it with the current ones online and get my grid that way. See you on the gold trails...
    Joe Meyer
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    03 Jan 2021 09:28 AM
    The lack of information in the online guide has been discussed on the forum for a couple of years now. Leadership doesn't reply or seem to care. It does seem rather asinine to pay to use something and then not be told where exactly that thing is.

    I asked here back in August about the people who buy a monthly membership only to find they don't get enough information to go anywhere but the exact center of the claim but got no response. I've paid for my membership for the year, and I'm using it to hone my skills at the few remaining close-by claims. But when the year is up I won't be renewing. I'll strike out on my own or join one of the other local clubs with their own claims.
    ARTHUR WAUGH
    Posts:804



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    03 Jan 2021 12:28 PM
    Not hard to get the full legal description of a claim.

    Will be on record with the BLM state office as well as the county recorders office. Just ask for copy of location notice.

    You'll have to convert T/R/S to lat/long.

    Not all claims list GPS for everything. IIRC, they started to, but a couple of restructures later, I don't know if it ever got done. Most have been provided by either members or claim owners.

    Note.... You may or may not find corners marked. Signs have a way of disappearing, and in my state, we aren't required to mark corners if the claim follows legal subdivision lines of sections. And frankly, some of to the claims, you need to fasrope from a helo to get to the corners.

    Oh, BTW....claims come and go in the time between printings, and it is against association policy to sell the guide. So even if you buy one, the claim you go to may no longer be legal to use. I know if we pull our claims, we will prosecute for mineral trespass and mineral theft, both federal beefs, for anyone who doesn't have permission.
    Joe Meyer
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    03 Jan 2021 01:13 PM
    If I pay to use a GPAA claim, which has the information already, there is absolutely zero reason I should have to go to my county office, or BLM, or anyplace else. Zero reason. Anyone who tries to justify such a thing is talking out of their rear-end.

    I've seen that suggestion here before - "just call BLM". It is a Crap suggestion. If that is the official guidance from the GPAA then they need to post it in big bold letters on their website - on the page where people pay money to get their membership.

    This is the page to buy membership annually or by month: https://www.goldprospectors.org/PriceTable

    It says that annual gets a printed guide, monthly gets digital. Nowhere does it say that the printed guide doesn't contain the information needed to utilize the claim, and buyers don't have access to the online guide to see how worthless it is, until they've forked over the money.







    ARTHUR WAUGH
    Posts:804



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    03 Jan 2021 01:48 PM
    Well, the guide is what members make of it, via reviews and updates. It's a work in progress, and always will be. You will find they took the data for the on-line guide straight from the printed version. Online gets some updates, (via reviews and reports), and the print version comes out every 3 years or so.

    Do your research and due diligence. Counties have the last word on claims current status. As a user, it falls on you to know if you are on the claim or not. You almost sound like you expect them to be either fenced or signed every 10 feet, with a big "dig here" notice.

    Not going to happen. The information is there, the association gives you the opportunity, but we can't and won't put it on a platinum serving tray for you. If you aren't willing to spend a couple hours of time, to then maybe this isn't for you.

    If you end up arrested or even shot, (it has happened), for being in the wrong place, don't bother calling. No sympathy here.
    Joe Meyer
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    03 Jan 2021 02:05 PM
    [quote]
    Posted By ARTHUR WAUGH on 03 Jan 2021 01:48 PM
    Well, the guide is what members make of it, via reviews and updates. It's a work in progress, and always will be.

    Do your research and due diligence. Counties have the last word on claims current status. As a user, it falls on you to know if you are on the claim or not. You almost sound like you expect them to be either fenced or signed every 10 feet, with a big "dig here" notice.

    Not going to happen. The information is there, the association gives you the opportunity, but we can't and won't put it on a platinum serving tray for you. If you aren't willing to spend a couple hours of time, to then maybe this isn't for you.

    If you end up arrested or even shot, (it has happened), for being in the wrong place, don't bother calling. No sympathy here.
    [/quote]

    (Rant On)
    If the guide was "what members make of it" then we'd be allowed to put the grid coordinates in there. We are not.
    Claim status is not equal to claim coordinates. They are not the same thing. Nobody was asking about claim status, they were asking for location to the actual claims. That's been pretty clear to see unless you perhaps don't want to see it.

    "The information is there." What kind of bs answer is that? Look at the online guide. The information is not there. There are no coordinates. The information is in the printed book. You, and others who have posted in this forum, keep falling back on that same tired line. If monthly buyers are second-class members who don't deserve all the information then tell them that straight up before they buy membership, instead of waiting for them to come here to the forum looking for help afterwards so you can tell them "tough s..t - do your own diligence."

    As for me getting arrested or shot - I've got grid coordinates. I paid for a year and got the book. And rest assured that the monthly buyer who gets hurt, shot or arrested because he started at the center point and went astray looking for boundaries he paid for but wasn't given won't be coming to you for sympathy. He'll be going to lawyers. They will look at the forum, see that this has been a problem for years, then they'll look at the page that sold the membership and see what it promises vs what it delivers, and then they'll be calling. But they won't be asking for sympathy.

    And finally I bought the book, it's mine. There's no proprietary information in there. You said yourself claim locations are a matter of record. GPAA might have the mineral rights to a location but the location itself is not secret. I'd sell my book when I'm done here. Heck, i might spend the next few months digitizing it and posting it online for free to anyone who wants to read it.
    Larry Wilkerson
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    03 Jan 2021 02:22 PM
    In support of some of the responses. All that you have stated is correct Arthur Waugh and I'm not asking anyone to hand feed me any information nor "X" marks the gold spot. With-in your own words on both post regarding this topic "shots fired has happened due to claim jumping". Your own words support the necessary safety measures needed here. I am doing my own research and I selected to partner with GPAA for claims they currently have access to... I am just asking for better online support as to where these boundaries are of these claims that is all... I know where the front door is Arthur, I'm looking for the boundary walls is all... nothing more. Re: Subject - 3D interactive mapping for (online) mining guide using Google earth pro.
    Larry Wilkerson
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    03 Jan 2021 02:24 PM
    In support of some of the responses. All that you have stated is correct Arthur Waugh and I'm not asking anyone to hand feed me any information nor "X" marks the gold spot. With-in your own words on both post regarding this topic "shots fired has happened due to claim jumping". Your own words support the necessary safety measures needed here. I am doing my own research and I selected to partner with GPAA for claims they currently have access to... I am just asking for better online support as to where these boundaries are of these claims that is all... I know where the front door is Arthur, I'm looking for the boundary walls is all... nothing more. Re: Subject - 3D interactive mapping for (online) mining guide using Google earth pro.
    ARTHUR WAUGH
    Posts:804



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    03 Jan 2021 02:33 PM
    And if you do post it up, and a non-member is caught on a claim, they're likely to be arrested.

    Claims department has other things on the plate to do. Staffing was cut to the bone a couple years ago.

    The main difference in the on-line vs print, is the print generally has the claim lined out on a topo map. You'll still have to convert to lat/long

    Instead of bitching so much, why don't you volunteer to convert some of the claims and submit them to have them put up. While you don't have access, (even as a claim owner, I don't), you can put them up as a mining report.

    Virtually everyone I've met in gpaa has bent over backwards to help and be friendly, but you are fast becoming the exception to that.

    Done here.
    Joe Meyer
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    03 Jan 2021 02:43 PM
    People have posted coordinates, and were told in the forum not to. That's why I haven't.

    "The main difference in the on-line vs print, is the print generally has the claim lined out on a topo map. You'll still have to convert to lat/long"
    No, that is not the main difference. The main difference is that the print has boundary coordinates, the on-line has none.

    As for arresting people - WTF are you talking about? It's not illegal for someone to know where a claim is. You said it yourself - the info is freely available to anyone who wants to go down to their BLM office and ask for it. A mining claim simply gives you the mineral rights to an area of federal or state land. It doesn't mean other people can't be on that land. They just can't prospect. If you've done all that due diligence you talk about then you'd know that.

    If you don't like my bitching, then don't read my comments - I certainly won't be reading any more of yours.
    ARTHUR WAUGH
    Posts:804



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    03 Jan 2021 02:46 PM
    Larry,
    Since you don't seem to mind doing a little research, call the county, get a copy of the location notice and convert the legal description to lat/long and you're good to go. If you want to help out other members, put them in a mining report for the claim on-line.

    Like I posted above, the main difference in print is the topo map snapshot. While that would help a bunch, to they might not have had the capacity when it was launched.

    I'm not enough computer savvy to get into that kind of stuff, or I'd start doing it and putting it in reports, at least for my state.
    ARTHUR WAUGH
    Posts:804



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    03 Jan 2021 02:57 PM
    Yes, I do know what people can and can't do on a mining claim, as I have several. I also know what I'm allowed to do that the general public can't. Claims listed are for exclusive use of members of gpaa/ldma for mining purposes. Non-members caught mining or prospecting are subject to arrest. Most people who are simply enjoying the public lands won't even realize a claim exists.

    Posting coordinates in a report in the guide is fine, in a forum open to the public is not, as the claims are for members. We have enough problems with non-member use as is without adding to it

    On my listed claims, when I come across anyone prospecting, I'll ask if they're members. If not, I'll explain it is members only and give them the local chapter information. The second time I find them and they're not members, then the authorities are called. If they're members then I'm ready to help in anyway I can.
    Larry Wilkerson
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    03 Jan 2021 06:23 PM
    I'm not questioning/challenging your knowledge, experience, nor your willingness to help. I'm thinking it is just a minor misunderstanding of my personal surveying interest and my current GPAA membership limitations. I'm not looking to create any altercation at any GPAA claim. Additional headaches for local authorities, land owner, and other members... not to mention the legalities/liabilities and responsibilities surrounding "some" applicable claims (depending on the Department managing district). As for posting interactive mapping solutions to current GPAA members on the GPAA website (I would welcome the honor)! As soon as I drop the month-to-month GPAA membership, start my full year membership, and get the printed edition... I will be able to get started. Mainly interested in feeding my personal trip planning projects, but willing to share as much as I can. I know you are part owner in 3 claims on USFS ground... I can't recall the state or the name of the claims. You offer positive feedback to several members spanning numerus topics. I'm just interested in somehow providing the same some day... No worries... Good hunting... see you on the gold trails. and thank you for your feed back.
    ARTHUR WAUGH
    Posts:804



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    03 Jan 2021 06:50 PM
    Thanks Larry. Actually the chapter president and I only hold 2 of the 3 in the group. Located in Oregon.

    If you ever get in the area, more than happy to show you around, as well as poke around on my unlisted claim in the same area.
    Larry Wilkerson
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    03 Jan 2021 06:54 PM
    Sir... again, it would be an honor.
    Larry Wilkerson
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    05 Jan 2021 12:57 PM
    month-to-month membership does not include a printed version of the GPAA mining guide... however, the online version is made available and "a work in progress". The online version does not include posted boundaries of the GPAA claims... The printed version does. If you are new to GPAA and signed up month-to-month you understand what I am talking about... BUT!

    IF YOU ARE CURRENTLY A MEMBER (MONTHLY/YEARLY/LIFETIME) -- CALL: TAMARA (Nicest person I think I've ever talked to in my life). At the bottom of every page from the online "Gold Prospectors" website is the link (Contact). Call that number: 951.699.4749
    Extension - 1. If your guide is outdated and your looking for an updated one, If you've never asked for one, but would like one, If your new to GPAA (like I am) and need one... call that number! They have new version in stock... but you better hurry!

    I'm placing this topic up as I have seen several new members disagree about the available support of GPAA and these mining guides.
    I was able to get one in less than a few minutes... See you on the Gold Trails.
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