Last Post 15 Feb 2017 08:57 AM by  ADAM ANDREWS
Where's the GPAA leadership???
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Shane Edwards
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13 Nov 2016 11:13 AM
This is a difficult one for me as I do see a purpose and necessity for protecting and preserving some "lands" definitely monuments, anything of historical importance, beauty and significance... I can also understand "reasonable" protections of wildlife and their habits. With that in mind, I often am out in the desert swinging my Metal Detectors, digging holes, often in some of these "protected and preserved (reserved)" areas at a federal, state and local level in which the laws governing these protections are all written specifically to protect and preserve some animal, a building or structure, a specific tree or plant, specific animal such as the desert turtle... Candidly my contact, interactions and experience with my local BLM has always been positive and they are always rather accomidating as I am extremely respectful to which these protections are in place for... Not sure if any of that makes sense LOL... I guess what I am trying to say is at least in my local area we have learned to respectfully live and enjoy our lands, history and wildlife together. In the case of dredging and especially mining I do feel there has got to be some controls, rules, "zoning" that make sense for all sides of this issue in the same spirit as I have described above... To borrow a liberal narrative - "Coexist" LOL... BEFORE ANYONE PUTS ME ON BLAST... Take it easy, I may have butchered my points and terribly presented my opinion LOL... I will most likely need to rephrase or better explain what I am trying to say.
ARTHUR WAUGH
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13 Nov 2016 11:28 AM

Mary-  you can thank the federal "Wild and Scenic Rivers Act" for that one.  Then add on Oregon SB 838 from a couple of years ago that put in the 5 year motorized mining moratorium.  For a bit of irony, the state senator that pushed that bill died while fishing on the river, catching the fish he was supposedly protecting with the moratorium.............

 

As for reversal or minimazation of existing monuments, I have not read enough of the Antiquites Act to even know if it is possible, but just thinking out loud.   We are facing a possble monument up here that in no way would qualify as one, just another "lock up".

Leo Lorenz
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13 Nov 2016 11:36 AM
You have a valid point....however....most of the outdoor lands that have exceptional worth to be overly protected.....has already been done in the past 100 years. I dont think there are any lands that we can all of a sudden "discover" and be found to be so exceptional...that now in 2016 we just realize that they need to be protected. Any protections that are put into place in today's world, in the USA, has not so much to do with the enjoyment by the US population.....but more for the extremist environmentalist organization to have their mark made on the land, in the name of some rodent, insect, or bird. They have this need to play God, regardless how others also feel. I grew up in steel mill towns and know what the effects are from rampant environmental abuse, but in the country today, we are worlds away from that era. To "co-exist" is one matter but to do so only within the prescribed boundaries dictated by these so called "experts" is not fair play. Besides, many of them are the very same people who today are running around thinking the world is going to end, and needing to have emotional support objects. They successfully get these jobs to fight the system from the inside.
Benjamin Crain
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13 Nov 2016 12:05 PM
WCA's or "Wildlife Conservation Area's" and Monuments are absolute shams that all they have done is change some wording around to make them into Wilderness Areas even though they don't complete the Wilderness Status rules. When you find a area that is being considered for this you need to gather some prospecting friends and file a 40-50 acre Claim right in the middle of the area.

One of the areas I was in this fall had enough trees cut down and dragged across trails to make the lands impassible, and this is being done legally by the Sierra Group Volunteers with the permission of the US Forestry Service and or BLM. Proper management of the land would mean they dropped the trees and then took them out, but instead they are being left to rot and form a barrier preventing access to OHV's and even hikers on foot.

I have talked to the BLM and Department of Interior in DC and from what I can tell is that none of those people have ever set foot in a National Forest in their life. I traveled through Rocky Mountain National Park this year and there is so much beetle killed trees that I would be willing to say over half of the trees are dead. There is enough dead wood standing in that park to fuel the entire United States with electricity for a hundred years but you can't, and they won't let timber companies help save the park. It is going to take one lightning bolt at the right place and we are going to have the largest forest fire ever witnessed and I hope the tree huggers and hippies in Denver and Boulder choke on all the ash it creates.

What is working;

I filed a complaint with the DOJ about discrimination from the BLM and Department of the Interior that they have blocked access to a great deal of land to people that are elderly, disabled, and handicapped and are in direct violation of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. When they shut down a trail or area and make it foot traffic only it prevents people with disabilities from having access and the is against the law.

I need to add this very important point;

If GPAA files a Lawsuit against the GOVT it is one entity and one Lawsuit, so it does us no good to file as a whole. Instead each individual needs to file a complaint, and you had better act quickly, the Obama admin plans on shutting down over 8 million acres before he walks out of office.

Go to our Chapter's Facebook page and join us in our fight, we keep up with many organizations out West with similar interests in saving our lands and have info on who to call and email complaints to. The land we are fighting for is as much my land as it somebody living in New York City, IT IS YOUR LAND TOO.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/WCGPAA/1824493481129516/?notif_t=group_activity&notif_id=1479058738281953

ARTHUR WAUGH
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13 Nov 2016 12:11 PM

Shane and Leo have valid points here as well.  Virtually everything worthy of being "saved" is already protected by either Monument or Wilderness status. Except in extrodinary conditions we don't need any more.   I in no way want to see the return of the "rape and run" tactics of the 1800 and early 1900's by the timber barons and mining forces, and others.  There have been many laws/regulations placed to ensure, for instance, the reforestation after harvest, recontouring and revegetation of mining operations such as the big leach operations.  That I see as a good thing, not only for the enviornment, but for the population and their enjoyment and use of the land and resources.

The enviros have gotten rulings from the courts that the federal agencies must look at "wilderness characteristics" when revising management plans, and to do nothing to impair those.  What it means in the long run, for instance, if a two track falls into disuse and is overgrown and can't be readily discered, that could end up being "untrammeled by man" and be a future wilderness area desiginated by Congress.

I would really like to see a "sunset provision" enacted for all current wilderness study areas (WSA).  If not acted on in a certain time frame they would be taken out of WSA status and retuned to multiple use.  As it stands now, the agencies can do no management activites that would impair the characteristics of that area.  The enviros don't want to see the the WSA's come to a vote of Congress as they might be rejected and returned to multiple use.  As it stands they are "defacto wilderness areas", under no real management.

 

We got dealt a pair of "pocket rockets" by surprise, and an even bigger surprise, the flop had the other two.  At least the next two years, and maybe the next four may be our best chance to get some changes form the recent past.

Leo Lorenz
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13 Nov 2016 12:13 PM
Whats on fire right now are your posts!!! Great I love it.....The DOJ will not do jack until after Jan 20th then there might be hope. If you have any address's or info that would help get complaints sent in I will do my part. Post them if you can.
Benjamin Crain
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13 Nov 2016 12:32 PM
Arthur,

The biggest problem with them coming in and shutting down the land that has been the same for over 200 years is that they have never done a study on the land of what the impact would be if man was not a part of it. They shut down some land for the small desert tortoise years ago saying that the cattle was killing them and they removed all the cattle. As soon as they removed the cows all the turtles died, why? Because the cow droppings were providing the fresh growth and insect larva that the turtles lived on.

Leo,

Tell me the number you want and I will post it for you, I have fought my ass off this year and would be more then happy to have a few million people make these idiots in D.C. actually do their jobs.

ARTHUR WAUGH
Advanced Member
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13 Nov 2016 12:33 PM

A lot will depend on who is selected and confirmed as Sec. Interior and Agriculture, and who will end up heading BLM and USFS.  You can count on changes coming in those areas.  It remains to be seen if those changes are benefical to multiple use advocates or the enviros.

 

In another vein, the old mining districts are being reactivated (most were never disbanded/disolved, they just fell into disuse), and they appear to have some pretty heavy clout at the table.  We just last night took the first steps to reactivate one here in Oregon that was established in 1867.  Others in the state are also being restarted.  There have been sucesses on mining already with the agencies.

Leo Lorenz
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13 Nov 2016 12:45 PM
Ben....any address which you know to be direct to the DOJ which handles discrimination and such. Or certain forms required to be filed as a formality. But I am also gonna try and expose these practices to the incoming government. I know I can get someone's ear for that.
Benjamin Crain
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14 Nov 2016 09:58 AM
Sorry this took a day, I was blocked access yesterday.

Here is the address for the DOJ Civil Rights Division

U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division
Disability Rights Section- NYA
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530

Here is the address for the Office of Civil Rights for U.S. Department of Interior

Mr. John W. Burden, Director
Office of Civil Rights
Office of the Secretary
U.S. Department of the Interior
1849 C Street, N.W., Room 4309
Washington, DC 20240

And if you want to call in person the number is 202-208-5693

Remember, if the GPAA files as a organization it is one filing, but if we all file as individuals it counts a great more.
WALTER EASON
Buzzard
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16 Nov 2016 07:32 AM

The Electric company that services Temecula, CA has been doing some kind of upgrades to the Electric service grid in the business park and surrounding area. That being said they have had our power shut down at GPAA office in mornings and then when power is shut down our servers will not come back up on their own. So someone has to go through the sequences to reactivate the system. Sometimes more than once. When power is down not even the phones work, when power goes on part of the phone system comes up usually, the rest has to be manually started.

sorry for the inconvenience.

Shane Edwards
Greenhorn
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16 Nov 2016 11:56 AM
LOL, Does anyone else see the irony here? The GPAA doesn't have a generator or even a couple 12 Volt Batteries laying around? I just couldn't help commenting. I thought it was funny LOL
Benjamin Crain
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16 Nov 2016 01:04 PM
Shane, I wish it was that easy.

Running a forum doesn't usually require you run your own the server, most of the time you just rent a slot in somebody else's server that has some extra room, it saves a ton of money to do that. But when that server goes down it takes all boards down with it and the time it takes for somebody to travel and then start the series of restarting does take some time unfortunately, and even then they don't always come up correctly.

I ran an IT and Radiology Server system at a hospital in Dallas for a few years and when the power would go down and Generators kicked on there was never one time that we did not have hickups, and that was even with a massive battery array backup system. But you get what you pay for, we bought that system with Stimulus money from the Govt if we agreed to build a hospital from the ground up a as "Paperless", which of course as you know only creates more paperwork.
Tim Leibel
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16 Nov 2016 01:17 PM
Shane,
I agree with Benjamin , I still build servers. A generator would have kept the equipment in house running, but is the area is out the network hubs for the IP would be down. I have spoken to several of the people in Temecula about their network. They run their own servers for security purposes. Not only to protect us but also the databases they keep. I know it seems like it is a little backward; but it is secure and works and upgrading the whole system would cost tens of thousands of dollars. I personally would rather spend my money prospecting than paying higher dues. Not that I wouldn't but I really am wanting some upgraded equipment.
Shane Edwards
Greenhorn
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16 Nov 2016 01:25 PM
Oh okay... I wrongly assumed it was on a local server. I aasumed that because I have never seen any host company without a generator (backup power). But my comment wasn't meant to be taken too seriously.
MARSHALL BROWN
Greenhorn
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16 Nov 2016 01:44 PM

I am a little confuesed about the hole mess that goes on in the gppa camp ,i was in alaska gold camp and i saw tom mass ride up the beach ,and he wouldn,t even stop and stop and ask how your doing ,he jest drove wright on by all week .so that was my last trip , to gppa camp in nome.

MARSHALL BROWN
Greenhorn
Greenhorn
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16 Nov 2016 01:44 PM

I am a little confuesed about the hole mess that goes on in the gppa camp ,i was in alaska gold camp and i saw tom mass ride up the beach ,and he wouldn,t even stop and stop and ask how your doing ,he jest drove wright on by all week .so that was my last trip , to gppa camp in nome.

ARTHUR WAUGH
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16 Nov 2016 03:24 PM

Tom and family still own property up there, but he sold his interest in the GPAA.  I suspect he didn't want to get into an all day talkfest with everyone who would want face time with him.  Has other irons in the fire and probably wanted to get things done.

So don't hold it against him or the organization.

Scott Dunn sr
Greenhorn
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18 Nov 2016 02:29 PM
I'm new to the GPAA and new to prospecting in a whole...and reading the things said about the upper management f the GPAA is a disgrace....They more than likely have a lot of other things to do concerning the rights and privilages of the members and the communities..So what...they don't pend 3/4 of their day to just set around waiting for a question. If it's about where to find the gold ...well they give us a claims book to go through and the many other resources...go out and find it from there...stop being and entitled little kid...I'm sure I will get a lot of negetive feed back but oh well....that's my 2 cents
Scott Dunn sr
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18 Nov 2016 02:29 PM
I'm new to the GPAA and new to prospecting in a whole...and reading the things said about the upper management f the GPAA is a disgrace....They more than likely have a lot of other things to do concerning the rights and privilages of the members and the communities..So what...they don't pend 3/4 of their day to just set around waiting for a question. If it's about where to find the gold ...well they give us a claims book to go through and the many other resources...go out and find it from there...stop being and entitled little kid...I'm sure I will get a lot of negetive feed back but oh well....that's my 2 cents
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