Last Post 10 Sep 2015 08:04 PM by  Justin Haines
Can You Identify what is in my Pan
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Kevin Gillas
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02 Sep 2015 11:56 AM

    Can you identify?  I was out prospecting with a metal detector and got a hit on a rock formation that was partially submerged. I broke off a piece of rock that even my hand metal detector would activate on.  I crushed the rock and got silver metal flakes after I pan the pulverized rock. It does not seem to be rust colored.  It did not melt to easy with a hand torch.  

    Any clue how to tell what the metal is?    

    I'll post a picture of my pan on my profile.

    Thanks for any help!

    William Hall
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    02 Sep 2015 05:03 PM
    Kevin,

    Need way more info for even a guess.

    You don't need to be specific as to where this may have come from, but just a general area.
    You say "partially submerged" in dirt, river, creek, lake, dry lake, pond ?
    Nevada, Calif, Oregon ?
    How many times you been out swinging ?
    The pic, is that after or before being heated ?

    I know its a lot of questions, but helps to narrow down the possibilities.

    Just seeing the pic as is, to me looks like lead, but you say it didn't melt, which lead would.
    By your description, I'm thinking iron pyrite, some sort of 'hot rock' with some form of metal.
    Meteor ?
    So many possibilities.


    Bill
    Benjamin Crain
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    02 Sep 2015 05:42 PM
    You could help us take a guess if you told us the area of the country, did the material melt or burn off, and what color was the flame when you put a torch to it, but pictures would be the best start.
    Benjamin Crain
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    02 Sep 2015 05:44 PM

    William brought up a good point, is the material attracted to a magnet?

    It looks very similar to some ore I have seen in the past and is possible you found a nice piece of gold ore, don't disregard it. We found a piece a few months back much smaller but similar and as I rolled it through my fingers it crumbled into flour gold and a nice match head piece of gold fell out.

    Where you found this were you down stream from a mine or abandoned mine?

    Kevin Gillas
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    02 Sep 2015 05:55 PM

    Hey Bill,

    Thanks for the reply.

    This came from south west Washington State at the foot of the Cascade Range.

    It came from bed rock partly eroded away from the creek/river that runs through the claim.  The stream partly covered the rock. I have only been out a half of dozen time prospecting and mostly find nails and bottle caps with metal detector and I have an A52 sluice if that is what you mean by swinging.  Pardon my greenhorn status.

    The picture was before I heated the metal and was still in the pan.  It did not act like lead when I heated it but I'll take another shot at the heat test.

      This doesn't act like pyrite that shatters when I heat it or when I squish it with pliers and pyrite doesn't show up on a metal detector usually. 

    Well it seemed to me to be some sort of hot rock but the metal seemed to follow a crack or vein from what I could see of it. 

    Kevin

    Kevin Gillas
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    02 Sep 2015 06:11 PM
    I did a second flame test with a propane torch and I could not see any color given off with the metal. The sharp edges disappeared first and then it seems to be dissolving.

    I can put plier marks in the metal. it came from GPAA claim Direct #1 ORMC147322.

    Thanks for your help!

    Kevin
    Kevin Gillas
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    02 Sep 2015 06:16 PM
    It is magnetic. So it is probably nothing?
    Ronald Peterson
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    02 Sep 2015 07:06 PM

         Welcome to the wonderful world of identifying elements and minerals. Some are easy to identify and others not so easy.

     

         The best way to start is with the following properties to narrow things down. Those properties  are Color, Luster, Hardness, Specific Gravity, and Streak just for starters. Once the specimen has been narrowed down simple chemical test can be made at home in most cases.

     

         One of the best books I have on this subject came from the University of Alaska's Mining School.

     

         Just remember this, never guess run a test, then you will know for sure.         Ron

    ARTHUR WAUGH
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    03 Sep 2015 06:38 AM

    Kervin-  Might pop into one of the chapter meetings in the area up there with it.  Probably get an answer from one of the folks there.  Lot of knowlege in the Portland and Vancouver chapters.  Someone probably ran across the same thing before.

    William Hall
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    03 Sep 2015 03:49 PM
    Kevin,

    Swinging in this case, relates to swinging your detector.

    No need to apologize for your being a green horn, we have all been there one at one time.


    Bill
    Benjamin Crain
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    03 Sep 2015 05:41 PM

    Just because it is magnetic does not mean it is junk, I have seen several samples of materials that were rich in gold but also iron, it all determines on how it was formed. I have even seen a half gold half silver nugget formed at different time periods through the same vent, so what ever you do please do not throw it away.



    When I get a unique piece of material we go through a series of tests. I will first test to see if it is magnetic, then I will see if it is pliable, then I will try to take a piece off and crush it in a rock grinder, then I will take that and put a torch to it.



    You may have a slag heap from a old Lead processing job that has oxidized, but you may also have stumbled upon something else. I tend to drop unknowns in Swimming pool acid to remove the rock and or oxidized materials, but this can be quite dangerous and I don't recommend it. You can also attempt to smelt your materials in a kiln, but buying that Kiln can also be quite expensive and not knowing what you have can be dangerous to your health.



    If you think this is a vein you might consider sending it to a refinery and have them assay it, you could have found a nice lead silver vein but the lead content may be 95% and the ore may not be worth digging.



    As Ron said above, welcome to trying to identify the unknown stuff we find.



    If I had that specimen I would be smashing it in my rock grinder trying to break off the outside rock and or oxidized material, the outside material will crumble off and if there are pliable metals they will remain intact.



    Have you been able to extract a piece of metal out of the rock and examine it? A lot of gold coming straight from ore will have a crystal appearance because it is still in the state it was formed and hasn't been worn down by being bounced down the river yet, some will look like quartz crystals.  

    Please also remember the melting temp of metals you are working with, if it is gold it is almost the same as copper, but lead melts much lower, 621 F degrees for lead, and 1945 F degrees for gold. Copper is even higher at 1984 F.

    I probably don't need to remind you of this but also please wear the proper safety equipment for what you are doing, I wear a scar to this day for not wearing proper equipment and wearing the right stuff for the job has saved my life on many occasions. I had a torch explode on me the first time I ever tried to melt gold, had I not had proper eyewear on I would have lost a eye and had I been wearing polyester clothes I wouldn't be here today.



     



    Kevin Gillas
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    04 Sep 2015 09:08 AM
    Ben,

    Those are all great ideas. I appreciate the wealth of information you have shared and your comments. You can not say enough about safety when you get into some of those activities. We think of what we could do wrong but don't think about what the equipment could do wrong and what we need to protect our self from.

    The metal sample was from a crush rock I broke off of the bed rock and I plan to take it to the next chapter meeting to see if anybody know what it is or can share more information.

    Thanks for your help.

    Kevin

    Benjamin Crain
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    04 Sep 2015 04:02 PM
    BTW, you can buy a hand held cast iron Mortar and Pestle online for around $40, you can pulverize a small sample easily, this is what we use. You would be surprised what comes out of those little brown rocks sometimes. Once you pulverize it throw it back into your pan and see what is heavy at the bottom, you may be surprised.
    Justin Haines
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    10 Sep 2015 08:04 PM
    It could be Sylvanite (AuAg2Te-)? I think it would be around 30% Au by wieght. It also emits poisonous Tellurium Oxide gas when heated, leaving behind a mixture of Silver and Gold. This mineral was common in Sierra Nevada Motherlode belt mines. Unsure if common in the Cascade Range.
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