Last Post 30 Nov 2016 08:51 AM by  tom glenn
Undercover BLM and Forestry Department agents?
 25 Replies
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Benjamin Crain
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21 Nov 2016 08:32 PM

    From what I was told from a trustful source is that the BLM and Forestry Dept. is sending out under cover against that act like fishermen or hunters, and then they come down and start asking questions. From what I was told one individual refused to answer the questions of this undercover officer and he has been given a fine close to $100K, and he was doing nothing illegal.

     

    If you have somebody you don't recognize start asking you questions stop answering and ask them why they are you asking me questions, who do you work for, are you a Federal or Local police agent, do you work for the BLM or US Forestry department? And any questions they ask you ask them in return why they are asking it?

     

     

    We got 57 days left before this country takes a giant dump of worthless human beings, luckily the rivers are frozen over and all of us need to email Trump so he can select the leader of the BLM and US Forestry Service.

     

    I would do it in a heartbeat but my spine is screwed, certainly we have a oil or gold giant within our organization that can step up for the job?

     

     

    And please, make sure every member of your family is carrying a side arm, .357mag or larger. I shot a really big bear with a .300 Weatherby Mag this year and it hunched and took off running, we spent two days looking for it and never found it, We also have a massive Mountain lion getting old, he is now going for easy prey, if you got kids make sure if they are out alone they know how to use a larger firearm.

    ADAM ANDREWS
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    21 Nov 2016 09:03 PM

      Wow. President Trump must be told about this. I'll bet he would stop it. How do we get 34,000 members to hear this and do something and say something. The GPAA needs to take a position against this, We all must make a united effort to ask that the new Sec. of Interior be Gold & Minerals friendly. And hopefully President Trump will stop this abuse of tax paying Americans Gold panning in our American forests.

    Brad Lamb
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    22 Nov 2016 11:00 AM
    Adam,

    This information, when verified with a date/time and people involved, would be a great addition to the outline draft letter you crafted on another thread.

    This may be the spark that unites us all in a winnable war with those who would remove and subjugate our rights.

    We must get some level of awareness to President Elect Trump. Anyone have an in?
    Benjamin Crain
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    22 Nov 2016 11:14 AM
    From what I understand the gentleman that was fined is receiving legal help from the PLP so I might be able to get a court and case number, I will look into it but it most likely won't happen this week because of the Holiday.

    Just remember this, if somebody comes up and starts asking questions about what you are doing, say nothing other then politely ask them why they are asking you questions. I carry a .44mag on my hip so most people tend to keep their distance, but occasionally somebody does come up and ask questions, usually it is just for directions.

    Tree huggers wont come within a mile, as soon as they see that gun they high tail it out of the area. See, guns do work even if the are not used.
    Brad Lamb
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    22 Nov 2016 11:45 AM
    Great Post, Ben!

    I carry a .357 mag. Not as many LARGE predators in the SE, other than the 2 legged type.
    ARTHUR WAUGH
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    22 Nov 2016 12:47 PM

    Yep....a .357 with 125 gr. JHP's is a good "social" tool to have at hand when needed.  A fellow chapter member had his 6 year old daughter ask me why I had a gun on our outing over labor Day w/e.   I explained that I carried it to keep all of us safe, not only from animals but from anybody who would do us harm.  He nodded and she went away happy and it was not mentioned again.

    "Baby" and I understand each other and we each know the others limitations, as we have associated for over 30 years on a daily basis.

    Mary McCarty
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    22 Nov 2016 07:15 PM
    Okay okay... so I carry a girly gun. Lol! 9mm Taurus PT92 Carries 16 rounds in the mag plus one chambered. JHP. Sorry but my Ruger Redhawk .357 magnum weighs 4 lbs. Unloaded with a 7" barrel. That's for home defense along with the 20 guage. ;-)
    ARTHUR WAUGH
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    23 Nov 2016 06:04 AM

    I've packed three different 9's, two different .357's and keep coming back to the old 4" Ruger Security Six stainless. 

     

    Try a 7 1/2 inch Redhawk in .44 Mag with a 2x scope for weight.  Little ungainly, even in a shoulder rig.

    You're not giving up much with the 9, and JHP's

    Benjamin Crain
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    23 Nov 2016 08:17 AM
    I bought my wife a titanium .38 special that was hammerless so it could be fired from within her purse but the bun hurt her to shoot and she preferred shooting my .44 mag. So I took it back as a trade in with her and we did a series of test with multiple guns.

    To my surprise she chose the Ruger SP101, 5 shot .357 revolver, and she loves this gun. When you look at it in a holster it small enough to be a .22LR, but it is a 5 shot .357 magnum with a 4" barrel and extremely accurate and light weight with low recoil. The 4" barrel balances the gun perfectly.

    So now when we get out to the country I ask "where is your gun" and she usually responds with " piss off, I am getting it now!" I have to get her in the habit of wearing it everywhere we go like I do with my .44mag.
    Benjamin Crain
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    23 Nov 2016 08:17 AM
    I bought my wife a titanium .38 special that was hammerless so it could be fired from within her purse but the bun hurt her to shoot and she preferred shooting my .44 mag. So I took it back as a trade in with her and we did a series of test with multiple guns.

    To my surprise she chose the Ruger SP101, 5 shot .357 revolver, and she loves this gun. When you look at it in a holster it small enough to be a .22LR, but it is a 5 shot .357 magnum with a 4" barrel and extremely accurate and light weight with low recoil. The 4" barrel balances the gun perfectly.

    So now when we get out to the country I ask "where is your gun" and she usually responds with " piss off, I am getting it now!" I have to get her in the habit of wearing it everywhere we go like I do with my .44mag.
    Brad Lamb
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    23 Nov 2016 08:30 AM
    Ben,

    I have had (my first weapon that my dad bought me when I turned 16) is a SW 357 Combat Special (6") in matte stainless. I love that heavy hitter.

    I recently picked up Taurus .357 7 shot 4" ported barrel that I have fallen in love with. Effortless shooting, porting allows the wife to shoot real .357 loads. Bonus, practice with inexpensive .38 spl rounds.

    It is not the size of the round, it is the accuracy and confidence of the shooter.
    ADAM ANDREWS
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    23 Nov 2016 08:54 AM
    Brad and Ben and everybody,
    I think mailing a letter to Trump Tower might be better than sending it to the White House (for now anyway). Obama's staff would throw them in the trash, they have no respect for anyone who's not a liberal.
    Also, Trump spends a lot of time on Twitter, if there's an electronic way to go, lets use it.
    And Ben, if you want to add a paragraph in the Letter to Pres. Trump that I'm writing in the other thread, go for it. I will add whatever anybody wants in that letter to President Trump.
    Brad Lamb
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    23 Nov 2016 09:16 AM
    GREAT!

    I will be happy to add any scientific data and put into lawyer/sierra club$%@#! speak. Ben, Arthur, Adam, count me in!

    I am a former Environmental Regulator who saw the err of movement and have become a hired gun to offset the non-science nonsense that Sierra and others of the ilk spew out. Without loud dissenting opinions, the haves will forever limit our access to recreational and small scale commercial mining, even with approved mitigation and reclamation plans.


    I look forward to putting faces with names at the next big outing. I am stuck in the SE until Linda finishes chemo, but, we plan a trip out west to hang out with the Temecula Valley Prospectors (Dominic and Jen and crew!) when she is over this. It will be late spring, if all goes as planned and God willing!

    Golden Days my Colleagues!

    Brad
    ARTHUR WAUGH
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    23 Nov 2016 11:45 AM

    BC-  If she ever gets to the point, do a trigger/sear polish on it, and a set of Wolf springs.  I did both as well as having Herrett make me a set of finger groove Shooting Masters way back when.  Really made the old girl come alive.

     

    Blurb in our paper he is looking at the OK Gov. as Sec. Interior.....anyone know anything about her stance on things?

    Wayne Crowder
    Highbanker
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    23 Nov 2016 06:06 PM
    Arthur,
    MSNBC website says OK Governor Mary Falin is a far right conservative on issues from taxes, abortion, and capital punishment but nothing mentioned about public land issues.

    Wayne
    Leo Lorenz
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    25 Nov 2016 06:18 AM
    Another organization that seems to be running wild with that BS is the Friends of Nevada Wilderness. I accidently run across their website in looking up property ownership on the web. Wow they are so hypocritical in what they choose to protect and I guess they do it only if it fits their agenda. It seems like they start with these Wilderness Study Areas and work to closing access to the areas by calling the trails "unauthorized access". Seems that they even have BLM's approval to setup barriers. When you read through through their propaganda you quickly see that they want to block all access to these area's. They are going after all properties controlled by BLM. Alarming. 
    William Hall
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    28 Nov 2016 09:18 AM
    Some years back the FS/BLM was real heavy handed applying rules that were made up as they went along, to counter this, it was spread amungst the miners/users
    when encountering a FS/BLM agent to be polite, nonaugumentive, letting them speak to what they wanted to say, when finished politly ask them their full names, badge numbers, immitiate supervisors names and phone numbers, the divisions they worked out of, chapter and verse of the rules/laws and any other pertanint information.
    Ask them to show you the written chapter and verse, some cases they cant.
    Letting them know in a nonconfontaial nonarugumentive way that you were going to pursue a follow up with said supervisors to make sure they were on the level with the info they were spewing.
    At one point someone had designed a form with all the questions one would ask, havent seen nor heard of this form for awhile.
    If said FS/BLM agent did not want to provide you with said info, they were probably shooting from the hip with the so called rules and regs, and in most
    cases would back down with something like "I'll over look this today" kinda of thing.

    This may not work if these people are "under cover", you dont know until you have given up to much info.
    I have encountered LEO's (law enforcement officer) out looking for wildlife pochers, would ask me a couple of questions, not being a wildlife poucher, they would take their leave, no further questions, even with a side arm attached.
    One of Discoverie channel shows was about LEO's/game wardens following and busting a large pouching operation in the ElDorado NF a couple years back right in an area I mine.
    There are reasons they "LEO's" are out there and it isint alway about us miners.

    Mary,
    Just an FYI
    Not knowing what part of the world your in, be aware here in California, a firearm can only have a 10round mag. max any thing more and your in trouble.
    A 16 round mag with only 10 rounds doesnt count.
    California wants to protect you from you. LOL

    Bill
    ARTHUR WAUGH
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    28 Nov 2016 09:28 AM
    She is on a work assignment in Oregon, so she is good to go if she carrys openly (visible) or has a concealed permit honored by Oregon.
    Mary McCarty
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    28 Nov 2016 12:53 PM
    Thanks Bill. :-)
    I guess on the very slim chance I'll ever prospect in California, I'll carry the little Kel-tec P3 AT. It's only .380 auto but has a 6 round mag.
    It's a good BUG.
    Cheers!
    Mary
    Mary McCarty
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    28 Nov 2016 01:01 PM
    Thanks Arthur.
    I did join the Baker County group but haven't mined with them yet. It's snowing up here and gets dark early. I've found that flood gold in the Wallowa riverand it seems to be shallow and up on the high banks. That river fluctuates a lot depending on weather. The nice thing is that as far as I can tell, nobody is currently mining it. No signs of dredging or otherwise. Not a huge amount there but I want to see what I can get with a sluice. Bought a Le Trap since it's lightweight and won't take up much space next time I move on to a new location.
    I've studied Oregon gun laws and really need to find a good belt holster for the Taurus as
    all I currently have for it is a good Tommy Pack concealment holster since I have my Texas CHL. Unfortunately, Oregon does not reciprocate those.
    Cheers!
    Mary
    ARTHUR WAUGH
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    28 Nov 2016 01:28 PM

    That elevation and time of year it happens fast. Keep a weather eye out and keep extra gear in the rig in case it changes to fast.   I think most of the waterways up there are classified as "essential salmon habitat" and are under the 5 year dredge moritorium.  Quite a few others are under "303d" listings for various things such as arsenic, sediment, temature, etc.

     

    Even with the dredge moritorium, you are good with non-motorized methods.

    Sent you a PM on your other item.

    Stay warm and dry

    tom glenn
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    29 Nov 2016 11:42 AM

     

    Am new to the gpaa but have claims in calif. , ariz. , and nv. and in many cases these   people are not undercover, but rather unqualified to know what there doing or your doing in the first place. The fs and blm have done away with most of the mineral positions and replaced them with butterfly chaser's and bumble bee counters. On the Lassen national forest our claims were jumped by commercial rock thieves stealing the large Quartz boulders using a backhoe that of course we got the blame for. Had to deal with a botany person and do a 10 page report telling that it was not us. They also hit another miner on the plumas , nf the same way and could not see the pattern.

     

    As far as protection my wife and I carry matching rossi  16" barrel big loop lever guns, hers  being 357/38 and mine 45 long colt with matching single action six shooters tuned to perfection. They look good hanging on the side by side and will reach out and touch what ever needs touching. We have claims on a  non motorized area so they are always trying to violate you for something, so just carry your placard and a copy of the American disabilities act and you start asking the questions and the conversation changes very quickly to sorry we bothered you and have a nice day far more intimidating than the rossi and cimmarons hanging on the cart but we always have Sam and Oliver along for peace of mind.

     

    Thanks, Tom Glenn

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    William Hall
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    29 Nov 2016 04:12 PM
    Welcome to the club Tom,

    Stealing quartz bolders ? Is there a market for those ?
    Using a back hoe, musta been big ones

    Bill
    Leo Lorenz
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    29 Nov 2016 04:30 PM

    There is a trick to dealing with the so called "fed" enforcers because they have been indoctrinated to be cultural/socially/ sensitive to peoples feelings as well. So in dealing with them it is imperative to make them feel badly about them causing you distress. It is the classic Saul Alinsky tactic that the radical left have used for years. Use the argument of the accuser and turn it back on him, use it as a weapon.

    Granted not all "feds" fall into this category, but that is where you need to use basic people skills to get a read on the personality of the "fed"

    Leo Lorenz
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    29 Nov 2016 04:36 PM
    Those quartz rocks make good decorations in the flower beds around the house....especially in Florida.....people wonder where that came from....
    tom glenn
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    30 Nov 2016 08:51 AM

    The rocks weigh from 500 to 2000 lbs and they took 12 of them or about 8 tons and did the same on the miner in plumas nf. He tracked them down in reno nv. where they sold them to a landscaper which had retail values of $2000 dollars ea. turning the facts over to the fs for prosecution they said sorry looks like a civil matter. in my case I told the botanist that I would use my buddies sam and oliver to handel it in a miners law fashion. My claims have history back to 1855 and peter lassen and myerwitz camping at the base of the hill on there first trip from the indian valley. He of course asked if I had found anything historic and I replied only some old rusty barbed wire and the biggest bear I have ever saw face to face because my wife said bear tom bear and locked me out of the pickup where as I fumbled for a pistol on the side by side and scared him as much as he scared me with a bang when I dropped it on the trailer. It was only loaded with snake shot anyway and probably would have  just made him mad. So I told the ranger I now carried a gallon of honey along with sam and oliver because this bear had claw marks no less than 8 ft. down a tree and weighed no less than 500 lbs and was completely blonde and never make a blonde mad but when I caught the rock thieves I would strip them down and tie them to the tree with the barbed wire and pour honey on them  and go for the law but it would take a while because it was 8 miles to cell phone reception and the beauty was even if the bear did not show up there is 10 different kinds of bees and red and black ants and I drive real slow. Thanks, Tom Glenn



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