Welcome Sergio,

No worries on the vacuum, if any one asks tell them your doing your part to clean up the creek/river
Make no mention of gold LOL
:)

Bill

Thanks Bill,
didn't get the answer I was looking for, but you are right, I should tell them I'm the clean nut, Felix Unger's son and I'm beautifying the place, cleaning up the litter of rocks that mother nature has strewn about and if I happen to get gold with the rocks then that's pure luck and shouldn't be held against me.
The reason I asked that is that i've heard the DFG sometimes takes away equipment that's not legal, I have a nice DeWalt 1.5 gal battery powered vac, seems to work good, haven't tried it out on the field yet, would hate to get it taken away.
Thanks for your reply,
look forward to meeting fellow miners!
Serg

I’d use it Sergio. I fully intend to use a small lightweight generator to power my 6.3 gallon Lowe’s dry vacuum in order to work a (dry) high bench on an awesome creek bend on my claim in Northern California. I recommend being discreet with minimal earthen disturbance, and maintain the philosophy of leaving the area cleaner than you found it...we are constantly picking up other people’s trash 😕. Technically, like a previous article in the Gold Prospectors magazine pointed out, in California, you are ‘supposed’ to maintain a distance of 300 feet from a stream with any mechanized equipment...but some areas are more miner friendly than others. Maybe keep photo examples of the lead/trash you recover as proof that you are benefiting the environment. Good luck, you should do well. My metal detector has lit up with faint signals on cracks and crevices on dry benches, most often only audible with headphones 🎧,

Right on Brian, that's good advice, that's so true about litter, hate seeing it, i do pick up so I don't have to see it, love the pristine look of nature. I must admit I'm a fisherman and sometimes use led shots and sometimes snag, I don't like it, but try to keep it to a minimum (mainly use lures though), what I really hate is the food litter and beer cans and such that can be packed out.
I will try my vac this year, it's a good way to clean out a crevice,
thanks again,
Sergio

The use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, otherwise known as suction dredging, is currently prohibited and unlawful throughout California.

Under new state law effective January 1, 2016, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment is defined to mean the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.

Under existing state law the California Department of Fish and Wildlife is also currently prohibited from issuing any permits for suction dredging in California under the Fish and Game Code.

With state law in effect, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, otherwise known as suction dredging, is unlawful in California rivers, streams, and lakes, and any such activity is subject to enforcement and prosecution as a criminal misdemeanor.

(See generally Fish & G. Code, §§ 5653, 5653.1, 12000, subd. (a).)

Michael is correct, "suction dredging" is illegal in "water ways" as such.
I do believe that motorized vacuum that Sergio intends to use, are used above the water line, in most cases on bedrock cracks and crevices
At times when water is no where to be seen
Not prohibited
Vacuum on Sergio

Bill

I’m with you Bill! Use it Sergio, and good luck!! Another way to think about it, what would George Massey do?...I have a good idea.

Only question is how a LEO is going to interpret "bank" if he is near water, but high and dry sucking out a crack, even if not attached to anything remotely looking like a dredge.

Would probably be okay, unless he runs across an overzealous LEO or Ranger with a preservationist bent.

In todays world...its ok to set fire to a federal courthouse, loot and vandalize in the city streets, and everything else. A misdemeanor is nothing more than a traffic ticket. I'll take my chances, go get my gold, and deal with the BS later, pay the fine and go back at it. Will they label me a habitual offender, I dont really care. California is beyond repair.

Guess you didn't read where it states 1) VACUUM, 2) MECHANIZED, 3) BANK, which is above the water line. But do as you feel comfortable. They will confiscate your equipment and fine you and if you like dealing with the court system go for it. I did 3 years ago and it wasn't fun. $300.00 dollar fine and lost the equipment I had with me. also had 4 separate court dates 150 miles from where I live. Again don't let them catch you and you'll be fine. It sucks I know....

Bravo! Great forum and discussion fellas. Thanks Michael for sharing your experience 🤝! Very sorry that happened to you! Makes me angry. I’m from Texas where there’s still a little sanity left. Our freedom is being eroded and constitution corrupted. Leo, I am convinced we are quickly approaching the end of this age...before our Lord and Savior ✝️ returns to put a permanent end to the world’s evils. Michael, what area were you in when this happened? Sounds like some unreasonable and overzealous cops/court system.

Wow, good stuff all, thanks for the input, I guess i'll have to be careful when I use my vac, it's very small and can hide it in my pack, just incase, dose GPAA get you out of jail & out of trouble?, is that part of being in the club? ; )
glad I joined the club, this is good stuff, lots to talk about and lots of gold to find, never enough time. My camp sight doesn't open until end of April
where I fish & mine and make killer pancakes, so i've been told, i'll try to get out to some of the GPAA claims before then.
Happy golding all,
Serg

Or maybe I should start build the ARK!
Serg

As a member, you are supposed to know and follow all laws, regulations and rules for the area you are prospecting/mining in.

They won't come get you out, or pay fines.

Hey, come on now, that was just a joke, geez, I am learning all the rules and don't plan on getting into any trouble and don't plan on using GPAA to get myself out of trouble, never been in trouble with the law my whole life, i'm a person that respects the law and respects others enjoying nature. As a fisherman I have a lot of respect for the DFG rangers & wardens, I pick up litter & leave my holes looking like no one has been there, I never fish over the limit, in fact I usually catch & release, and i'm not a greedy person, not looking to get rich looking for gold, I just find it very interesting, the thought process that goes into finding gold and the excitement of figuring things out & seeing gold in your pan, so that's me in a nut shell.
Thanks,
Serg

Yes, you may use your Dewalt for out of water surface mining. The wording on Ca. SB 637 passed in 2015, contained the term, "Bank" .Section 5653.1 used to read, "equipment, also known as suction dredging, is the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals." SB1222 changed the wording to, "equipment means the use of any equipment that removes minerals and water in conjunction to process and recover minerals." SB1222 was written because of the ambiguous and confusing wording of SB 637.
For further clarification, simply read SB637 subsection 5653.1. Then read SB1222 5653.1 and you'll see the wording change and removal of the word "Bank".

Here's the link. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB1222

Sounds good Art, Thank you for the info, makes me feel a little better if I use it. Is that the Klamath in Northern California? and is there a GPAA claim up there? How did you do there?
Thanks again,
Serg

Lots of GPAA claims up in Siskiyou county and the Klamath river. I spent from May until the end of October living in my motorhome mostly around the Happy Camp area last year, surface mining the banks of the Klamath and various confluences. Klamath is about 30 miles south of Oregon border. Did fairly well....lots of gold up there. I'm also a member of another club that has additional claims on the river too. I hope to do better this season. I use my Dewalt for crevices and moss. A good tool for retrieving the fines. If one is going to prospect the Klamath, it's good to be able to work the other side of the river, so I got a little boat with a trolling motor. (Be careful with a small underpowered boat crossing the Klamath, it can be quite dangerous in places.) I can't run the rapids with it, but it enables me to access areas hard to get to and seldom worked parts of the claims. Good luck and happy hunting.

So...lets keep this in perspective. If I dont remove the water from the creek, stream, river I can still vacuum for minerals underwater right? My device does everything under the surface of the water , so water never is removed. Also the materials are not removed from the water either. Only the minerals recovered are removed. So I'm good to go dredging in California water.

The original question was whether it is legal to vac mine the banks of a river, lake or waterway in California. The vague, ambiguous wording of SB 637, passed in 2015 or 16 was amended by SB 1222 in 2018, which didn't change the dredging law, only the wording as to what constituted illegal dredging activity in and around water.
SB637 Subsection 5653 (g) "For purposes of this section and Section 5653.1, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, also known as suction dredging, is the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals. This section and Section 5653.1 do not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict non motorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold.".....this was the troublesome language. The term, "bank" caused many miners to have various equipment confiscated because of inconsistent interpretations from the various law enforcement agencies , when enforcing the SB 637 dredging rules. SB1222 addressed those issues and changed the wording to, "(g) For purposes of this section and Section 5653.1, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment means the use of any equipment that removes minerals and water in conjunction to process and recover minerals. This section and Section 5653.1 do not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict non motorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold. any equipment that does not transport mineral bearing material through a suction or nozzle."

These aren't my sole interpretations of the law. I've discussed these issues with both forestry folks and others who have much more knowledge and expertise than I. The real question might be if everyone in various law enforcement circles are on the same page in their enforcement strategy.
I guess the bottom line is bad legislation creates erratic and inconsistent enforcement of it's results.

Hi Everyone,

I agree with Michael Panelli, technically using a any kind of "suction" including a vacuum would be a violation of the law, however Artur Waugh has a good point. There are some DFG Wardens who will only question what you are doing and just watch and observe and just wish you luck, BUT unless you're friends with the Warden and knows which way he is bent I'm not sure I would take the chance. There are other ways to getting the gold from the crevices and cracks, might take longer but it might be less costly.

Probably the best and safest way is to ask the local enforcement organization in the area you're prospecting, what is their interpretation of the law as it pertains to surface vac mining.
If there's confusion on the enforcement end of a particular law, usually it is because the State Attorney General hasn't interpreted and provided guidelines to the various enforcement agencies involved. I'd like to find and read the Atty. Generals notes or guidelines on the issue, if there are any. Always better to be safe than sorry....and you are right...there are many other ways to find that pesky shiny stuff.
They appear to not have a problem with surface vacs up on the Klamath area, but I don't know their interpretations in other areas. I guess it's too much to ask that the enforcement be consistent across the state.

My next trip up to the Klamath will be in May. I will make it a point to go by the DFG office or find a officer and get a definitive answer to the surface vac question. I'll share whatever they say.

This is a very real political play. If you have a liberal democrat hard core supporter who works as a DFG employee, he will act in a totally different manner than a Trump supporting DFG and votes Republican. Its a fact of today's world. Environmentalist activists are totally against any sort of mineral extraction unless it fits "their" rules. Any member of the GPAA who wants to collect gold/mine/and detect cannot possibly also be sitting on the fence in their support. Its very easy to understand why up along the Kalamath River DFG can have a different attitude. There are many who believe the government should butt out of private citizens business, they are out doing this recreationally and dont need to be told how and what to do in protecting the environment. Besides, California is guilty of doing more harm to the environment and pumping more carbon into the atmosphere with its yearly forest fire circus. All the ash which pollutes the rivers and streams is 100's times more than any dredging can do in many years time.

Squeaky wheels get the grease. I’d drive on and use it without drawing attention to yourself by tapping on a Forest Service Officer’s shoulder with technical questions. Take your good faith interpretation of the law and boldly drive on. I’m going to use my inconspicuous set up on my claim irregardless. Again, depends on the area you’re working. If in an unfriendly/uninviting area, then take your business elsewhere...my Texas $ goes a long way in boosting the local economies of Northern California!!

That's pretty much how I operate up there. Last year I worked a section of the River that is very remote. 40-45 miles west of Happy Camp, on the Klamath. I prospect with buckets, classifiers, pans, scoops, shovel, crevicing tools, and sometimes my metal detector. Occasionally I'll use the small Dewalt to clean out some exposed bedrock and moss. I have no equipment with me that raises suspicion or concern. I'm in an area that one can't hike into. Sheer cliffs on both sides and on the far side of the river. I launch a small boat with a trolling motor and go approx 1/2 mile upstream to get there. I take my classified buckets back to camp where I'll run them through a Gold Hog multi sluice, in a closed recirculating series of tubs filled with water and circulated with a 12 v pump. Everything legal and above board. My partner and I keep to ourselves and go about our business without concern or bother from others. Actually, it was a fantastic place to spend 5 months last year during the height of the covid lockdowns. Unfortunately, the Slater fire roared through Happy Camp last September, forcing the wife, dog, and myself to evacuate to Yreka, but that's another story for another forum.

Hi Art Anders,
Sounds like you have a nice slice of gold heaven up there in the Klamath, I love Northern California, used to camp & fish up there all the time, during that time I didn't know about gold there. Would like to get back up there sometime to explore, for gold this time, i do love fishing though, guess I can do both,
maybe i'll see you there sometime.
Serg

Hi Sergio, I'll be up at the LDMA Scott River camp for a dig party June 1-6. I believe it's open to both GPAA members and non members. Probably stay for a total of 3 weeks. Then I'll head back up probably end of July in my motorhome and stay until probably the end of October. There's also a 3 day metal detecting trip I plan on attending October 7-10, up on the Salmon River area. Haven't really got my schedule ironed out yet. Let me know if you plan on being in the area...always willing to meet a fellow prospector and have some fun.

Hi Art,
yes I would like to meet a fellow miner, sounds like you do a lot of traveling, I guess your retired, my problem is i'm
still working, running 2 businesses and I stay pretty busy, so i usually do a 4 day weekend over at the s.fork of the Stanislaus,
camping & fishing & mining an open area of the river, hard for me to get away for extended period of time and the Klamath is
pretty far, but if I do get some time to go there in July i'll let you know, it sounds good, we'll keep in touch.
Let us know how you do,
Thanks,
Serg

That LDMA Scott River Camp looks like a fun time, how can I find out if i'm just a GPAA member, would I be able to go there for that dig party,
if yes do you have to sign up or can you just show up and can you camp right there? or do I need to be a LDMA member.
Thanks Art
Serg

Serg, one doesn't have to be a LDMA member to attend the various dig parties. They are open events but non LDMA pay a little more to attend. You would need to register beforehand.

Simply contact Keith or Karen
Caretakers
LDMA - Scott River Camp
tel 530.496.3204 | email - scottriver@goldprospectors.org

Many of the LDMA exclusive properties offer periodic dig parties or group prospecting/metal detecting adventures that are open to everyone. Personally, I want to attend the dig events so I can learn from other much more experienced prospectors. Also, sitting around the campfire at night with a bunch of like minded folks after spending the day processing material from the river....well, it is a lot of fun. I'll still do my individual prospecting on the various GPAA/LDMA claims I have access to, but the knowledge you gain and the friendships you make at the various events justify the price of admission, in my mind. $100.00 bucks for LDMA members and $150.00 for everyone else. (which includes some camping options)

Keith or Karen are very friendly and helpful folks...just give them a call. Feel free to give me a call if I can help in any way. 510 552-6692

Good luck...hope it works out for you
Art

That's great Art, you hit the nail on the head, that's exactly what i would like to do, is meet more experienced miners & learn from their operations & experience, also sounds like fun too, thanks for the info, i'll call them when I get a chance, hopefully I can make it in June to meet them & hopefully meet you, it would be tough though for me, but we'll see.
If I do not make that one in June, do they have other dig parties? and how do i find out about those?
Thanks again,
here's my number also,
650-483-8360
Serg

Serg, there's a listing of the various events. I'll look around for it and forward it to you. The best resource for that information would be a call to Karen or Keith. They're both so helpful and friendly...truly great ambassadors of the GPAA/LDMA organization. Once you have the schedules and listing of the various events, you can decide which events fit into your calendar.
Usually one can find the listed events by going to the GPAA website, click on the STORE icon, scroll down to EVENTS. I'm seeing 2020's list of events, not 2021....though I know it exists. I'll keep looking and forward it to you when I find it.

Another great resource for current information would be:

Dominic Ricci
Executive Director of Operations
Lost Dutchman’s Mining Association
888 – GOLD (4653) - 717
dricci@lostdutchmans.com

Good luck and I hope to meet you at one of the coming events,

Art

Listed in the magazine.

Hi Art,
Looks like i will not be able to make the gold dig up there next week, was hoping to, I really want to make it, but I just got swamped with a lot of work.
Hopefully I can make the next one, I need a nice vacation, hoping to make it to my camping area next week for some fishing & mining for a few days at least, which is closer to me, if I can get my work done. To go up to the Klamath I would have to take more days off. Hope to meet you at another outing, good luck next week, let me know how you did,
Take care,
Serg

Sergio, Unfortunately, as it turned out I had to cancel the trip at the last moment. I would of had to turn around right after the dig party and bring my motorhome home due to a memorial next week for a good friend who recently passed. I'm still signed up for the metal detecting event in October. I'll probably head up sometime in July, stay until the detecting event is over, then head to either Nevada or Arizona for some fall prospecting in the desert. Hopefully somewhere along the way we can do some prospecting. Good luck and take care...keep in touch.

Hi Art,
I'm so sorry for your loss of your friend, my condolences to you & your friends family.
Sorry you couldn't make the dig party, I wish i could of made it, I spoke with Karen, very friendly & informative,
I will try to make the metal detecting one, even though i do not have one.
I did go to my spot on the so. fork of the Stanislaus river & when I went to my spot from last year a big tree had
fallen over my spot so i couldn't work it & had to find a new spot. I told myself I was going to do some crevicing bedrock,
I have been watching Gary "two-toes vids & learned a lot from him, what to look for & which crevice could be good, seemed to work.
the first crevice I picked i found 4 nice flood flakes & every pan after that had gold, most small flakes but one good size flake & I think I
found a very small silver nugget, I say nugget because through my eye loupe it looks like a very small nugget, pretty cool, in the sunlight it had quite a shine. I really like crevicing now, you come across a lot of lead & metals that you take away from the river & clean up the environment, i also picked up a lot of litter to keep the river clean, also caught a lot of trout, 8 went in my cooler & i caught & released 7, lost 4 (one big one). It was quite a nice trip.
Until we meet, Take care,
Serg

Hi Art,
just checking to see how things are going? I see there are a few fires up northern Cal. hope they are not interfering with your gold mining.
I went back to my spot & did some more crevicing and this time I brought my small shop vacuum, & it worked great, was able to get most of the dirt from the crevices, got about 30 small flakes from same 3 crevices on this one piece of bedrock, I must admit though I was a bit nervous using it, with the sound of the river near me & the vac going, kept thinking I was hearing voices yelling at me, but it was just my imagination, so it worked great most of the day until the battery went dead, had spare bat. but left it back at camp, my pack was pretty heavy.
I spoke with the BLM & they told me if it's on their property, they don't care if we use small shop vacs like mine, but the DFG might think different,
anyway hope you are well,
Thx
Serg

From the BLM mouth "they dont care"

I get the same response in the field, "hey how ya doing ? " see ya later
Show respect,, dont trash the place, carry on

Bill

Ditto Bill…🤝! I used my shop vacuum and lightweight WEN generator with pride on my claim, that is, before the Dixie Fire had something to say about it 🙁. It worked great but I had to periodically blow out the filter. Tried running without the filter,…don’t do that 🤓, unless you want to clog up your vacuum. I blew it out, reinstalled the filter, and kept going. I managed to recover gold that would have likely been left behind. The lightweight WEN generator is great by the way, and is half the price of the Honda ( which is outstanding as well). FYI, I never installed the high altitude carburetor jet (as recommended) and it ran fine at 5100 feet.

Brian,
Yes that WEN generator is great. I use mine at altitudes from 4500 - 6500 in Nevada and works fine. Gee I think I paid about $375 for it new. Perfect for in a camp.

Hello fellow miners, I used my 1.5 gal. DeWalt shop vac for the first time a month ago & it worked great, was able to get dirt & rocks (also gold) from the crevices, it's very strong & battery last along time & i used it again last week, but this time for the ribbed hose nozzle I added a 3/4" surgical rubber hose, very strong & was able to get into real small crevices & clean them out really good that I couldn't before, I use it without the filter, a bit dusty but fills up the bin nicely & doesn't clog up, 1-full bin about half a pan. I got a lot more gold this time, and got my first little picker & some good size flakes.
Another thing I found out about using the vac is, if you think you cleaned it out good, your wrong, first time when I got back I was getting the vac ready for my next trip & found out there was still some dirt/black sand in it, especially in the ribbed hose, I poured it out into a pan & found there was still a lot of black sand & gold,(fine gold, but gold nonetheless), so I kept cleaning it & kept getting more until I got it squeaky clean, so make sure you clean it it out good. What I like about my vac is it's easy to pack & not too heavy with the battery, no one has bothered me about it so far. I love crevicing now, lots of fun figuring out the right ones & also get to clean the river of lead & metals. Learned a lot about crevicing from watching vids from Gary "Two Toes", he sure knows his stuff.
Happy mining all,
Serg